Trigger warning:

This site may, in fact always will contain images and information likely to cause consternation, conniptions, distress, along with moderate to severe bedwetting among statists, wimps, wusses, politicians, lefties, green fascists, and creatures of the state who can't bear the thought of anything that disagrees with their jaded view of the world.

Jul 17, 2007

More Carbon Sense Coalition

Here is another press release from Viv Forbes. While I don't discount the possibility of some man made contribution, I believe the arguments on both sides, but especially the 'global warming side' tend to be partisan to the point of zealotry. I am uncertain about the "No Problem" argument, to the point of some skepticism, however I consider the pro-warming proponents to be extreme and politically driven.

The whole 'debate' could do with an injection of intellectual honesty. I told one warming zealot on another site a couple of days ago, "If you ever get religion you will be scary".

Viv Forbes is a very intelligent and honest sort of person, and I trust his opinion, so here it is: -

“Policies for Poverty”

The newly formed Carbon Sense Coalition today described the Global Warming Policies of both Federal and State government and opposition parties as “Policies for Poverty’.

Chairman of the new group, Mr. Viv Forbes, says that at a time when scientific and informed opinion was becoming more skeptical of the apocalyptic prophecies of the Global Warming Industry, politicians and the media were competing to propose the most extreme and expensive options to ‘solve’ a non- problem.

‘A coalition of big business, big government and state funded media and research bureaucrats is colluding to impose job losses, power shortages and increased costs for electricity, transport and food on the unsuspecting Australian community ­ a well designed total package of Policies for Poverty.’

‘Ordinary workers, consumers and taxpayers will be sacrificed on this Altar in the vain hope that it will have some beneficial effect on earth's future climate’.

‘Even casual analysis of the evidence will show that even if Australia closed every coalmine and power station, and stopped all cars, trucks, ships and aeroplanes, it would be impossible to detect any effect on world temperature’.

‘Politicians seem prepared to impose enormous costs on the Australian people in order to achieve miniscule effects on a non-problem’.

‘Professor Lance Enderbee has published graphs of mean temperatures from 27 rural recording stations in Australia for 100 years from 1890 to 1990. The trend is horizontal, with mean temperature in 1990 below that for 1880. This has occurred during the century of the motor car, two world wars, and massive growth of coal burning for steel production and power generation. Rising carbon dioxide levels have had no effect on temperatures’.

‘A similar data set for six Australian capital cities shows a generally rising trend in temperature since 1950 ­ that is, rising temperature in Australia is an urban effect, not a result of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.’

‘Urban heating is caused by air conditioners pumping heat into or out of buildings, motors cars exhausting hot fumes, hot factories, millions of hot bodies, politicians emitting hot air, hot concrete and bitumen, polluted air, fewer breezes and less cool pastures, swamps and scrub.’

‘This urban heating will be made worse by the silly proposal to replace electric appliances (whose source of heat and emissions is controlled in an isolated power station in the countryside) with millions of small open fires burning in gas stoves and hot water systems in every home all over the city.’

‘The federal government and five state governments have six different programs and models covering emissions trading, carbon caps, carbon taxes and renewable energy schemes. Each jurisdiction is rushing to set up new energy, greenhouse and climate change offices with hierarchies of expensive public officials to staff them’.

‘Merchant banks are gearing up for the easy profits to be generated by carbon trading. Lawyers are preparing for the rush of new business from the disputes, legal challenges and shady deals which will follow the complicated sets of laws and regulations on carbon caps, emissions trading rules, conditions covering free permits, penalties, exemptions, offset policies, early abatement rules, reporting requirements and international trading rules’.

‘All of this is creating a totally artificial industry living on the sweat of ordinary workers, farmers, miners, foresters, consumers, taxpayers and shareholders.’

‘Every carbon cap or tax will increase the cost of electricity in every home, farm and factory. Every increase in power costs will drive one more business and its jobs to China or India. Every subsidy for playthings like solar collectors or wind farms will cause an increase in taxes. And every ethanol plant built will increase the costs of every bit of food on the table of every home in the country ­ all of these are Policies for Poverty.’

‘The long-term effects on the community will be obvious, but different. Emission traders and regulators will get bonuses in their pay packets. The beautiful people in the leafy suburbs will cut back on cappuccinos. Grain and sugar farmers supplying ethanol plants will prosper. All other farmers and consumers will suffer losses as grain, sugar and electricity costs rise. Coal miners will lose their job. Factory workers will lose their house. Politicians will lose office.’

Mr. Viv Forbes
The Carbon Sense Coalition

(More information on The Carbon Sense Coalition can be found on our web site at

Carbon Sense has responded to the latest Policy for Poverty in Queensland¹s “Climate Smart 2005”. It is entitled: “Look before you Leap”.

In it, The Carbon Sense Coalition accuses the Queensland Government of proposing draconian policies, which will have no effect whatsoever on global temperature, but will, if pursued, do tremendous damage to most Queenslanders.

(The full text of “Look Before you Leap” can be downloaded from:


  1. Check out this US Carbon Footprint Map, an interactive United States Carbon Footprint Map, illustrating Greenest States. This site has all sorts of stats on individual State energy consumptions, demographics and State energy offices, State Taxes and more...

  2. One of the problems I have with this type of assessment is that power etc. which is produced in one state for use in another, is booked to that state, not the area in which it is used.

    If for example power is produced in Montana for use in New York, then the relevant CO2 should be booked to NY. It would cost considerably more carbon to truck coal from Montana to NY then burn it to produce electricity.

    Under the Kyoto protocol any coal produced in Australia, no matter where it is used is considered our pollution, whereas China, Japan and others are actually burning it.

  3. The debate as to whether there is global warming due to human influence is over. The hard evidence that warming is taking place in the last few years not correlating to the sun’s activity as it had in the past but correlating to increased fossil fuel burning e.g. as in China and India as an example, is proof enough for any business. That is the reason why business is insuring itself as much as possible and taking onboard all possible actions to ameliorate the problem and keep in business. Risk management is not scare tactics and is normal rational behavior. One of the ways to do it is to embrace renewable energy power production but to date this has not resulted in a concerted effort in that direction simply because government and big business has been fossilized in a previous century and has the belief that coal and nuclear will be and will have to be used as major sources to provide jobs and wealth. And the belief there has not been a breakthrough and probably will not be for quite some time that renewables will displace coal and nuclear as major sources of power is as result of that fossilization. It is not a question of whether there is a breakthrough in technology that will displace fossil fuel and nuclear as major sources. It is because of a lack of awareness that renewables can do it and in fact we are at the crossroads of that happening now.

    There has been a breakthrough in renewable energy base power production! I refer to solar thermal power using a cheap flat mirror system and storage by the disassociation of ammonia in an endothermic reactor then stored at ambient temperature and used at any later time even during wintertime the sun's energy is not lost being chemically locked up. Then reapplied to an exothermic reactor heat is produced at about 500 degrees to provide steam for power generation. This closed loop system enables 24/7 base power production for industry and it also is able to provide medium or peak power on demand. Not only that the storage system is easy to do and cheap and is based on mature technology and enables the sun’s energy to be stored any length of time without loss so that the energy can be extracted in the wintertime if necessary or any time in the future! No other storage system can do this and it is a real breakthrough. A gigawatt plant is right now being built in America financed by venture capitalist Vinod Khosla who says that solar thermal power is poised for explosive growth because of it’s low costs together with Australian scientist Dr David Mills who had to leave Australia because of our government’s unfavorable policies. We could have had this happening in Australia if our government had been receptive. There is certainly no need to have nuclear power here! And in Europe a TRANS-CSP report commissioned by the German government calculates that solar thermal power is likely to become one of the cheapest sources of power including the cost of transmission. Not producing any carbon and it does not have safety issues it’s easy to see why. This is the power that needs to be, and can be sent to third world counties and the rest of Europe via High Voltage Direct Current Transmission lines from solar thermal plants in North African deserts or the Middle East with only 3% loss in transmission. In fact the whole world could use this as a major power source as there are many deserts around. The potential for it to power the world cleanly and safely and reduce greenhouse gasses at the same time is a real bonus. And it is being done now. Lets get on with it and continue! A general understanding and awareness of solar thermal power (CSP) can be seen on and and understanding of the storage system in schematic form can be seen at

  4. Thank you Enviro;
    This is quite interesting stuff. I am grateful that I am not getting the negative zealot type of environmentalist I see elsewhere. Perhaps you would like to look at another blog I contribute to: -

    I enclose a couple of references that you might find interesting: -
    and: -

    I found the first very interesting but have not read the second, which came from the same person, so it could be anything.

    I feel that economical alternative energy is a great step forward, as it will put this generation in the area where it will attract venture capital.

  5. Actually Enviro I tend to stay out of most of the GW stuff on alsblog as it tends to end up as a slanging match between the two sides.
    Regards, Jim.